On December 30th, 1903, over two thousand people were packed into Chicago’s brand new Iroquois Theater for a matinee performance of Mr. Bluebeard, starring comedian Eddie Foy.
Little did theatergoers know, however, that the owners of the theater cut corners in fire safety measures in an effort to open as quickly as possible. Despite billing itself as “absolutely fireproof” there were no sprinklers or fire alarms installed, the fire escapes weren’t finished and some of the exit doors had been locked during the performance. When fire struck on stage in the second act, the interior of the theater became a hellish death trap, killing close to six hundred people.
My guest is Troy Taylor, author of the book, “One Afternoon at the Iroquois: America’s Deadliest Theater Fire”. He is a podcaster, historian, tour operator and an expert on the paranormal.
Troy’s website: http://americanhauntings.net
A link to his podcast page (the American Hauntings Podcast): http://americanhauntingspodcast.com
Transcript:
Erik: Welcome everyone, to another episode of the Most Notorious podcast. I’m Erik Rivenes. Hope you are doing well. I am so pleased to introduce this week’s guest, Troy Taylor. He is the author of more than 120 books, mostly on ghosts in the Unexplained, and is the founder and owner of American Hauntings Tours and Events.
He is also the host of the American Hauntings Podcast, a podcast on history, hauntings true crime, and the paranormal. And even with all of this knowledge about the paranormal, Troy still knows an awful lot about history especially Chicago history, and he has written a book about a topic that I have wanted to cover on most notorious for quite a while.
His book is called One Afternoon at the Iroquois: America’s Deadliest Theater Fire. Thanks for coming on. Great to have you.
Troy: Sure. No, great to be here. I I, yeah, I, I love this story too, so it’s been one of my longtime favorites, so I’m glad that I could join you for it.
Erik: Absolutely. When do you first remember hearing about the fire and what led you to write a book?
Troy: Well, I think that I probably first heard about it when I was a kid. You know, like I’m sure you and half the listeners are probably the same way. Even as, you know, young children, we still had an interest in, in the macabre. And so fires for whatever reason have always sort of fascinated me, you know, especially these big ones, these deadly fires.
And I didn’t know anything about the ghost stories involved when I first heard about it. I ran across it in a, in a book about, you know, America’s, you know, greatest fires or something like that. And But what really kind of got me interested in it enough that I wanted to write a book was hearing all the, the stories that I finally did get to hear about all the ghost stories.
When I was living in Chicago I, you know, that was one place that I loved to take people was Death Alley, you know, behind where the Iroquois theater was, because there had been so many stories about people having experiences there. And the more I learned about the story, it is just such a, a quintessential Chicago story because it’s got everything involved in anything you think of about Chicago except for maybe gangsters.
But, you know, government corruption, police corruption, how this place got opened in the first place, you know, all the, the dangerous things that took place and the corners that were cut. And, you know, it, it just, it’s, it’s a fascinating story. It’s just one of those perfect storms of horrific things that can happen when safety goes unchecked, I guess you would say.
Erik: Absolutely. Yeah. So your story revolves around the Iroquois theater. Of course. It was considered quite an architectural wonder, at least that’s how the Chicago newspapers described it when it first opened in 1903. Would you describe it for us- what it looked like? Both on the outside and the inside?
Troy: Sure. You know, the theater there, I mean, there were a number of other theaters in Chicago at the time, so it wasn’t that it was so much different than the others, but it was supposed to be more spectacular.
And because there had been fires that had taken place in other theaters around the country, I mean, not too terribly long before that, there would’ve been a terrible fire in Brooklyn, New York that had killed a lot of people. And so people were very leery about theaters there for a while. So this place was supposed to be, Absolutely fireproof.
You know, like the Titanic was absolutely unsinkable as it turns out. But the theater itself, it looked like a Greek temple on the outside. Big columns, a a big curved entrance. The interior had stained glass, polished wood. There was a 60 foot ceiling in the lobby, marble floors and walls. Two big grand staircases.
There was you know, the, the massive lobby and then there were the, the balcony area, which was again, Just huge a, a mezzanine area, lower balcony, and then an upper balcony that held hundreds of people as it was. But, but the, the great thing about the theater, or at least the way they advertised it, was the fact that it had 25 exits in the theater and the owners claimed that they could empty the building in less than five minutes.
They also had an asbestos curtain that was between the stage and the audience because a lot of the fires, of course, started on the stage back in those days because, you know, they were using gas lighting and open flames for light. And so when a fire did start, it was usually on the stage, but that was supposed to protect the audience from any kind of fires.
The problem was with this, is that the seats in the theater were cushions that were stuffed with hemp. So they were absolutely not fireproof. And a lot of the fire equipment that was supposed to have been installed never actually made it into the building. There were no fire alarms in the building and a lot of things were ignored to try to get this place open in time because it actually opened just five weeks before the fire Mr. Blue Beard, the, the show that was playing at the time of the fire. That was the first performance that was done there, and there would never be another one. I mean, that was, that was the first and last show ever done. I mean, there had been other, opening other shows of Mr. Bluebeard, but no other place had been booked into the theater by the time it burned.
Erik: So there were issues with the fire stairs. The fire escapes not being completed.
Troy: Yeah. All sorts of, yeah. There are a lot of things that are gonna come up. Yeah. As the fire goes on, they start to realize that those were just the beginnings of the problems. I, I guess I should have covered them all.That sounds bad enough, but there’s actually a lot more that, that became apparent as people tried to escape from the theater.
Erik: Right. So whose responsibility was it to make the theater safe?
According to them, no one , you know, no one was actually responsible as it all turned out, but the owners of the theater were supposed to have arranged for the inspections.
The fire marshal of the theater was supposed to have taken care of that, which he did. And when the, when the actual inspectors came in to look things over. They warned them that, you know, some of the things that they were supposed to have going here, they hadn’t been installed yet, but they were assured that they would be, oh, they’re coming. Don’t worry. We will have everything installed. We will have all those boards taken off the, you know, the air vent in the roof that was supposed to suck out, you know, any of the heat. So any kind of fire that would break out there was supposed to go straight up and not into the audience. But unfortunately it was all boarded up on the roof.
They had it covered, and so no one was able to prevent that. But they were assured that all of that would be done before it opened. But it wasn’t. William Sallers was the fire marshal of the theater and he had asked repeatedly for, you know, fire equipment to be finished for, for everyone to be trained on how to open the exit doors because they had a complicated locking system and all the ushers were supposed to have been trained on how to open them.
The problem was only the head usher was trained and he didn’t train anybody else. So when the fire did start, nobody knew how to open the doors. Eventually, some of them were forced open, but for the most part nobody knew how to get out. And then of course, the fire stairs that you briefly mentioned up on the balcony was supposed to have been installed and it was. Partially. It didn’t make it all the way down to the street and the higher one, the upper one in the cheap seats in the balcony, those stairs hadn’t been installed at all. There was just a platform out there. They didn’t get that finished. All this stuff was on the to-do list, but just didn’t quite make it in time for the opening of the theater.
But, you know, they figured it’ll be okay. So inspectors were either paid off or were given tickets and free passes for friends and family to come to shows at the theater, which was a big deal for a lot of people who, you know, worked a city job, maybe couldn’t afford tickets to the theater. So that was as good as a cash bribe back at that time.
So a lot of things were overlooked, a lot of things were passed over, a lot of promises were made, and a lot of money and, and, and negotiables changed hands to allow this place to open ahead of schedule.
Erik: Right, right. So you mentioned Mr. Blue Beard. It was a show that was family friendly. Eddie Foy was the lead, a very famous actor. Can you tell us more about the show?
Troy: Sure. No one, the critics at the time who saw the show weren’t quite clear what it was about . So, so it had a lot going on. There were about 400 stagehand and actors who were part of this troop. So it was kind of a variety show, I guess you would say. Some of it was set like in the Far East where someone was spinning a story, but then there were like fairy tales involved and a lot of singing and fairy gardens and all kinds of things.
So it, it was, it was meant to be funny. Eddie Foy was a, was a popular comedian of the day. He had traveled all over the country by this time. And had, you know, made a name for himself and people really liked him. And so he sort of made up for the shortcomings of the lack of plot in the show. That, and the costumes and the music, which is why most people were coming.
As you said, it was a very family friendly show, so there was, you know, mother Goose tales and all kinds of things going on and, and lots of dancing and lots of singing, so, It was, you know, appealing to the entire crowd. And so that’s why there were so many children and young women who were there in the theater that day.
I mean, the Iroquois was supposed to seat 1600 people and you know, it was the holidays. Kids were outta school. Teachers were outta school. Young mothers nannies had brought kids to see the show. There were about 700 people in the seats down in the front of, around the orchestra pit, another 400 in the mezzanine, or the first balcony, as they called it, in just about 500 in the upper balcony, which were the, the cheaper seats.
And then, you know, added to that were people who showed up late, people who came with guest passes, people who were given tickets by city inspectors. The estimates varied, but they think there might have been as many as 200 people standing in the back of the theater and in the back in the balcony when the show went on.
It’s thought that by curtain time there were about 1,840 people, mostly women and children packed into the theater in the seats a fifth standing, four deep in the aisles. And then of course there were the 400 stage hands dancers and performers who were on stage. So we’ve got well over 2200 people packed into this theater when it finally went off and, you know, filled with singing and dancing and music and a lot of moving parts, which meant that with all of the things that were going on that required a lot of lights, it required a lot of stage changes. And it was, especially in those days when you’ve got open flames, that’s what’s lighting your stage. You know, the scene has been set for a disaster. I mean, how, how this, they would’ve gotten away without one. I’m not really clear. I mean, it was, it was a pretty risky situation.
Erik: And one of the highlights of the show was a, a young woman hoisted on a wire. That would hover above the audience.
Troy: Yeah. Yeah. She was one of the, one of the main performers or a big part of the show that people came to see. And, you know, there are a lot of legends about her as far as how everything that happened and everything. Sometimes we’re not really clear how many of the stories are true.
We do know that she died. We knew, know that Nelly died in the building. We don’t know exactly how she died. Nelly Reed was her name and she was an aerialist as they called them, or an aerial dancer. And she had been up in the kind of the skylights overhead where everyone could see her. And there are some stories that say that she was stuck up there and wasn’t able to get down.
Other stories say that she got down, but that her costume caught on fire. So there are varying accounts of what happened to Nelly, but we do know that she did die in the theater that day because her funeral was held in New York a short time later. So her body was taken back to New York. But how exactly she died, we don’t really know.
Erik: So this tragedy took place during a matinee performance of Mr. Bluebeard on December 30th, 1903. And it was during the second act of the show when the fire began, right?
Troy: There was a there was a whole troop on stage singing. It was a garden scene, and they had these, you know, it was supposed to be nighttime or evening, and there were twinkling lights and things.
And the, there, there was a, a large group of people on the stage and one of the spotlights, about 15 feet above the stage malfunctioned. And it’s thought that it shot out a small arc of flame, which caught one of the fixed curtains on the edge of the stage on fire. Now down below, no one knew what was going on at this point.
The cast was in an uptempo song and the stage hands who saw the fire were trying to slap it out with their hands, but it kept getting bigger, and it started consuming the, the, you know, the material above their heads started to get to the heavier curtains. A man on a, up on a catwalk was told to try to put it out.
He started slapping it with his hands because there wasn’t any fire equipment. There was nothing they could do. Now, no one else was seeing -the audience completely clueless at this point. They couldn’t see any sign of a fire and the folks on the stage hadn’t looked up to see what was happening yet. So it’s this romantic musical number on, on a garden set.
And you’ve got people going crazy up above trying to put the fire out. And now smoke was starting to rise and William Sallers, that the house fireman that was there had been making as usual rounds, which normally just meant was making sure no one was smoking backstage. Well, when he spotted the, the, the fire, he grabbed what were called chemical tubes.
And it really just had powder in them that sort of shot out like a fire extinguisher that you had to, you know, do by hand. It wasn’t, I mean, it wasn’t like, you know how you squeeze the handle on a modern fire extinguisher and it shoots out? You kind of had to pump this thing. By that time the fire was too big for that.
It was just completely ineffectual against the fire. Again, the actors on stage don’t know what’s happening until sparks started raining down on them from up above. Now they knew something was wrong, but they kept singing and dancing cuz you know. Show must go on. The musicians in the orchestra pit spotted the fire and they were told to just keep playing but play a little faster so that they could kind of end the song before anyone realized that there was any kind of danger, because nobody thought that this would spread into the audience.
They thought this was something that was happening on the stage and could be easily taken care of. But I think that people in the audience started to notice when some of the musicians put down their instruments and very quickly exited through the orchestra pit door. And then of course, depending on where they were sitting or standing, the audience started to see the fire.
And a lot of ’em thought it was, especially the kids thought it was part of the show, they thought it was some kind of special effect. You know, especially the people in the upper balcony, they couldn’t see anything. Kind of the light from the fire up above them because the curtains were down far enough that there was no way to see what was happening.
And at that point, people backstage were starting to panic. The, the cast and the crew on the stage were starting to panic. And finally people started to shout fire. And it was clearly heard, at least through the first part of the auditorium. And, you know, people started yelling for the asbestos curtain to come down, but nothing happened because the stage hands were all pretty new on the job, and they weren’t sure what curtain was the right one to pull.
And as it would turn out that. When it finally did come down and got stuck, the asbestos curtain wasn’t actually asbestos at all. It was just wax coated with something that unfortunately made it even more flammable. But it was put on there for show because they hadn’t had time to install the asbestos curtain yet.
So the stage hand who had sounded first started to sound yell out for a fire, ran over to pull the fire alarm. But of course, there was no fire alarm box that had been installed either. So he had to run down the street to Engine Company 13 to let them know that the theater was on fire. And you know, now with 2000 people into the theater, people are starting to panic.
Erik: And there were a few, few audience goers very early on who, who did see flames and were aware enough to make a hasty exit.
Troy: Yeah, they were some of the first ones of the only ones to get out safely. Right.
Erik: And also important to note some of the doors were locked and ushers had instructions not to let anyone through them.
Troy: Right, right. Because they had an issue with people taking seats they weren’t supposed to take especially to the balcony. The upper balcony. Those were the cheap seats at the theater. The expensive seats were down on the floor. So the people who had bought cheap seats and were up in the upper balcony they were always afraid that, I don’t know where they would’ve gone since theater was packed.
But the management was always afraid that they would come downstairs during inter in, during the intermissions and take seats that they weren’t supposed to have. So the ushers were instructed that during intermissions, or any time when, when anything was happening between acts or anything to keep those doors locked, there were gates that went across the staircases that went to the upper floor.
And that was, like I said, to keep people from coming down. The problem was that when the fire started, most of the ushers panicked and ran out of the building and left those gates locked. So now not only were the gates from the balcony locked, but so were most of the exit doors going out into the alley and into the streets so that people could get out of the theater and when people first got to their feet, you know, you already had people running and climbing over seats trying to get to the side exits. But you also had people who were standees, you know, the standing room. Only ticket holders were blocking the aisles and nobody knew which way to go. The theater was brand new. So as some of those initial people started to run out, others started to follow them, and now people were screaming loud enough that the cast that was still singing as burning scenery was falling around them. People were starting to panic and run out of the theater. Well, Eddie Foy was backstage and had heard all of the screams that were taking place, and he had his little boy with him in the theater that day, and he ran to the back door with his son.
And then, but having second thoughts about just abandoning everyone, handed his son off to one of the stagehands told him to get him outside, ran back into the theater. Now keep in mind, Up above his head. Everything is on fire now, and fire and pieces and burning debris is starting to fall. Well, Eddie Foy ran out to the edge of the stage to try to calm down the audience.
The cast was gone by this time. He was the only one standing there and was shouting at people trying to get them to remain calm and to slowly and carefully leave the theater. Well, unfortunately, some people misunderstood, and those who could hear him from the front row, many of them sat back down again in their seats thinking that, you know, that’s what he meant.
But that was not what he had in mind. He just wanted people to be calm. Well, then a few moments later a huge piece of the set crashed down behind him, and he again, now urged everybody to walk slowly as they exited. And he called for that asbestos curtain to be pulled down too. But, Like I said, it, it wasn’t asbestos and it only came down to about 20 feet above the stage and then it stopped.
One end of it got caught, it got jammed on a reflector and wouldn’t come down all the way. And then to make matters worse, with the stage doors open, and keep in mind those doors were large because you had to take big pieces of scenery in and out. So having a door that big with all that air rushing through it, then hit that curtain that was supposed to be fireproof and turned it into like a fan, like a slowly moving baffle that was now sending air and fire.
Out into the auditorium, just like a big flame thrower out over the audience. So now the stage was a burning inferno and so was a lot of the auditorium because the, this column of smoke and flames was coming out from underneath the curtain and pouring out into the place. You know, it was a fireball, comes boiling out, sucks up all the air burns and asphyxiates a number of people.
And then finally when the fire really got to the top of the theater, about 280 pieces of scenery fell to the stage all at once. And when it did, it knocked out the electrical switchboard. So now, not only was the theater on fire scorched filled with screaming and burning people it was now completely dark because there was no light except for the light from the flames. That was it. Which of course, made everyone panic even more.
Erik: Right. And, and there was a light switch somewhere, right. That turned the auditorium lights on and off, but, but no one really knew where it was. Or thought to turn them off, right?
Troy: That’s correct. And, but even when, and then well, and that would’ve helped initially to turn on the house lights, but no one did. But once all that scenery came down, it knocked out the entire circuit. So there was no power anywhere in the building after that fell. And that was right after most of the cast got out the back doors. But the auditorium is still filled. The aisles are pretty much impassable. You know people are blind.
They can’t see anything. There’s heat, there’s smoke. People are screaming. People who, you know who died didn’t just burn. They suffocated from the smoke. They were crushed. They were trampled. I mean, later when the police were moving remains out of the theater, they found, you know, a, a woman with like a shoe mark on her face.
You know, people’s clothing had been ripped to shreds as they tried to get out. They’d just been stomped on, walked over, smashed between walls next to chairs. You know, they found bodies stacked up in the staircases where no one could get out. As they tried to get down the the stairs that were locked people were jumping off the balcony to the floor below, and most of them died instantly when they hit the floor or hit the seat backs or hit the armrests on the chairs.
So it was, I mean, it wasn’t just fire or that killed these people. There were so many people that would add to the death toll. You know, more than 600, which made it the, like I said, the deadliest theater fire in American history. But the thing was, when the engine company got there and they finally, the fire department finally showed up at the theater, they couldn’t see that there was anything wrong because it was quiet.
No one was coming out the doors because they couldn’t, they were trapped inside. If there hadn’t have been smoke coming from the roof, they wouldn’t even have realized it. They finally got access to the building by breaking open the doors and then finding they couldn’t open them cause there were too many bodies stacked up against them. So they started having to pull the bodies out of the way, and it only took them 10 minutes to put out the fire. But it didn’t matter because so many people were already dead by that.
Erik: So again, the exits -no exit signs, and some of the doors were actually covered by these big draperies.
Troy: They put curtains over there because they thought they were unattractive and they didn’t like the exit signs because they were distracting. So they didn’t put up the signs. They covered the doors with curtains and again, and they were locked, so that didn’t help either, either. It was just like a lose, lose, lose, no matter how you looked.
Erik: And the doors opened to the inside, not the outside, which also made it difficult.
Troy: Some of them did and some of them didn’t. It’s become kind of an urban legend that none of them did. But those exit doors, the fire exit doors actually did open to the outside. It’s just the problem was, is that they were all locked. Now, unfortunately, the doors that led out from the lobby out to the outside and from the, you know, as people came down the staircases to try to get out those doors did open inward.
So with all the bodies piled up against them, the police or the fire department couldn’t get those doors open at first. And that led to more delays as far as getting people out. And then when they did, they found people stacked. 5, 6, 7, 10 people high on the other side just had been smashed and trampled and suffocated by, you know, the crush of the crowd coming at them and then them having nowhere to go.
Erik: And the people who were at the biggest disadvantage were women and children. You, you write that the bigger, stronger men shoved themselves forward ahead of the others to, to get to the exits.
Troy: Of course. Yeah. Yeah. It was not a case of women and children first by any means. People panicked when the fire started, and a lot of them, the men who were there just pushed their way through.
A lot of their, you know, of course there were many fathers and things there that did try to save their children. Some of which succeeded, and many of which didn’t. They found women and children and men and children had been trampled and with, with fathers and mothers holding onto their children trying to keep them safe even though they knew they were going to die.
But just so many people that were just too big of a crush of people. You know, when they got to those locked doors and they found those gates at the top of the staircase, they were finding 200 bodies stacked there in places where some alive and some not trying to get out of the theater, and they just simply couldn’t.
Erik: Right. Right. And it was around this time, right, that that poor Nelly Reed was left kind of just suspended in the air. And I know you write in your book that there were multiple accounts of, of what had happened to her. It’s not entirely clear, but in one of these accounts, she actually managed to free herself from the wire and fell to the ground.
Troy: Yes. And was badly burned, but pulled out of the theater, but then died soon after. That’s, that’s probably what actually happened. Because it, it gets very confusing because somewhere along the line, another character entered into the story that no record’s been able to be found of. Another aerial performer named Floreline who now some people say that’s who was left dangling at the end of the, the wire that was on fire and fell to the, you know, ended up falling down like on, on fire and flames. But then some say it’s Nelly Reed. So it’s, it’s confusing. It’s just that we do know that Nelly did die. Now how exactly what happened? That’s, that’s, that’s a bit of a mystery.
Erik: Yeah. So one of the most horrific scenes in all of this, and, and it’s all horrific, was the scene in the back of the building, the area that would forever be nicknamed Death Alley? Can you explain what was happening there?
Troy: Yeah. Yeah. So the people who ended up -well there were people who were coming out of the main floors into that alley, which was actually known as Couch Place. It was a cobblestone alley, and some people made it out. Some people on the lower balcony made it out. But when people in the upper balcony, and keep in mind there were about 500 people up there, but many of them fled to the staircases, not knowing that they wouldn’t be able to get out that way, that the gates were locked.
So they did find there were some other access points where people were able to get out using janitor stairs and things, but for the most part, people got jammed on that staircase. So once the exits seemed to be jammed, people went to the fire exit, which was supposed to let you outta the building, onto the fire stairs, but they had not been completed.
So right outside, the main exit door for the upper balcony was just an iron platform where the stairs would be attached theoretically. So when people got to that platform, they found themselves about 50 feet above the alley and with nowhere to go. They were trapped out there, and more and more people kept coming out the doors, which led to some people being pushed over the side and crowded off onto, you know, to fall into the alley below.
Well, as it turned out, right across the alleyway from the theater was Northwestern University’s dental school, and there were some painters who were working in there. It was the holiday season, so school was out, but they saw what was happening. So they took a ladder and made a makeshift bridge from the window over across to that iron platform so that people could try to crawl across it. Now, keep in mind it is winter. It is very cold. There is ice all over the place on the ledges. There’s snow on the ground. You’re 50 feet in the air, and you are crawling on your hands and knees across a ladder. Now, only a few people made it until a man finally slipped off and fell to his death, taking the ladder with him.
So the painters then, You know, another idea. They grabbed three wide boards and pushed those across, and that worked for a while, but there were just too many people coming out of that door. They helped as many people as they could, but then when all that scenery fell behind Eddie Foy, that 280 pieces of scenery I was talking about, people just panicked and ran out that way and knocked the bridge down. And then people were now trapped and swarming onto that fire escape. So they couldn’t turn back. There was no place to go. Some, you know, as they said, many tried to get across the planks, a lot of ’em fell. A lot of people who by now their clothing was on fire just jumped hoping that they might survive the fall.
And some probably did because unfortunately they landed on the bodies of the people below them who were already had fallen and had died in the, in the, in the alley down there. So, I mean, with nothing, I mean, they just kept seeing this solid mass of burning people coming out of this doorway and with no way to help.
Well after the fire reporters who arrived on the scene managed to count about 150 of the dead who had fallen into that alley. That’s how it got the nickname Death Alley. They had been stacked there by the firemen cuz they’d fallen to their death from up above. It was, I mean, it is a horrific, just even imagining it is a horrific scene, but you can imagine what it must have looked like to those reporters who were there that day.
Erik: Yeah, for sure. So many thought Eddie Foy had been consumed by this, this fireball, but, but he had managed to escape it.
Troy: Yeah, he did make it out. Most of the, not all, but most of the actors and theatrical people were able to make it out because they had, they had the only real clear exits from the building with those stage doors.
It’s just, unfortunately with those stage doors open and no venting at the top of the theater, which they were supposed to have, letting all that air in probably made the fire spread even faster and made it even more volatile. You know, I, I’m sure that no one, it wasn’t anything malicious that was done, it was just, everything about this was a disaster as far as the thing, the thoughts that were put or lack of thought put behind all the safety in the theater.
So, you know, people did everything they could, you know, and even for hours afterward, you had policemen and firemen, newspaper reporters, volunteers off the street trying to get people out. Dead or alive, most dead By then you know, medical schools were sending students down to help. Hardware companies were sending lanterns.
Department stores were sending blankets and sheets and packages of cotton to use for bandages. They were using delivery wagons for ambulances, turning restaurants and bars and, you know, even some of the department stores were turning into makeshift hospitals and things to try to treat everybody because it was just, I mean, there were so many people who were walking around but who were so badly burned that, you know, they wouldn’t even make it to the hospital.
And of course, they knew had hundreds and hundreds of the dead that they had to go somewhere and they couldn’t leave them inside the building. So they did the best they could.
Erik: So there were plenty of cowards as, as has been discussed, but there were heroic people as well. Eddie Foy certainly had the best intentions, but, but another man who rose to the occasion, he, he ran the elevator.
Troy: Right, right. Yeah, that’s, that was quite a story. Who went, I mean, he did that at his own peril to go back and and rescue some of the core singers that were trapped on the upper floors in the dressing rooms because that had an interesting set up for the dressing rooms on multi levels. And you know, with the, when the fire started, a lot of the girls were trapped up there, so he kept running the elevator for as absolutely long as he could to try to get the girls in out of the basements, out of the dressing rooms anywhere that he could until he had to flee.
You know, there were a lot of people young guys who were running up and trying to carry out children you know, doing everything they could. There was a professional baseball player that was involved in some of the rescues who had just recently retired from the game and his name made it into the papers and things.
But yeah, there were a lot of people who did great things. And then of course, you had the people who were robbing valuables off the bodies they found in the theater. Coins and, and jewelry that had been melted. People were stealing it, they were stealing it off the injured outside, you know, out on the street when they were laying bodies out, trying to, to bring people, revive them and take them to medical treatment or had died and it had been left outside. People were stealing from them. I mean, this went on and on throughout the entire ordeal. People going into the temporary morgues that were set up claiming bodies that they could try to get insurance money from and just, you know the, the best and worst of humanity all in this one disaster.
Erik: Right. Exactly. One of the people that survived the fire right, was, was Frank Lloyd Wright, Jr.
Troy: Yes, yes. He was there at the fire. His I believe his nanny had taken him there that day. Which is interesting because he went on to have his own career as an architect. So it makes you wonder about how things, how history would be different if he had not survived, you know?
So yeah, there, there were there were some, some fairly well -that went on to- fairly well known lives that were there at the theater that day and barely made it out. And there were just heartbreaking stories of people who tried to help or people who died and, you know, left entire families behind. And there were suicides that followed after whole families were wiped out, you know, except for the father who was alone, or one child left and the others all died in the theater.
Yeah. It’s, it’s the, the personal stories of it are as heartbreaking as just thinking of the numerous children that were burned and trampled and just unbelievable amounts of, of horror that these people faced to the rescuers and, and salvagers when they went in to try to find people and they’d find others were completely burned. Some had no burn marks or bruises on them at all, but had just suffocated from the smoke. I just, I can’t even imagine what it must have been like. I really, I really can’t.
Erik: Oh, abs, absolutely. Yeah. Were there any, especially indelible accounts for you when researching this?
Troy: Yeah, that, you know, some of the, some of the, the, the bodies that were found of like mothers shielding their children. And then, but it didn’t, they all suffocated from smoke. There were quite a few of those found there. There’s also a story about a firefighter that had gone, had been going in and out, in and out of the building and bringing out bodies mostly of children, until finally he just sort of snapped and they had to take a child away from him because he just couldn’t handle anymore.
So there were, there’s just so much. Heartache and tragedy that came out of that day when you’ve got 600 and some people and, and you know, a third of that was little children on school break. You know, it’s just amazing and, and horrific all of what happened in such a short period of time because the whole thing only lasted a few minutes.
That’s the thing you, when you, it takes longer to describe what happened during the fire than the fire itself actually took, took the time to happen. It’s, it was just a matter of minutes. And all these people died.
Erik: Yeah. One, one story that especially moved me was the one about this little boy who had somehow gotten out of the theater by himself, and he managed to walk like six blocks in the freezing cold to his father’s law office. Where he collapsed and died.
Troy: Yeah. It’s it’s a, it’s a, it’s just such a horrific story. It really is. And, you know, and the reaction from people, because nobody thought twice about slipping a bribe to somebody to make sure that a theater got opened in time. But then the next day, you know, it turned into, you know, a national disaster, they banned New Year’s Eve celebrations. They closed anyway. The entire city was shut down, pretty much no fireworks, no horns. No churches, no factory bells were allowed to ring. They had a, a complete silence over the city. And then on January 2nd, they had the official day of mourning and people were demanding that someone be held responsible. But of course, no one was, you know not in the end, not really.
I mean, there were all kinds of people brought up on charges. I mean, they even indicted the mayor, you know, at one point, but it never amounted to anything. There was an investigation, but they, nobody really got blamed. Not the fire marshal, not anybody, none of the inspectors, you know, the fireproof curtain was made outta cotton.
Now, there weren’t any fire alarms, and the owners decided that sprinklers were too unsightly and too costly, so they never had them installed. The, there were the locked gates, the exit lights, all that stuff. Doors to outside, you know, could open to the outside -we were talking about -in the, in the or pulled to the inside as we were talking about in the lobby.
Everyone denied all the coverups and the bribes and all of that stuff. You know, everybody denied everything. And there were 275 civil lawsuits filed against the theater, and no money was collected. Absolutely none, absolutely $0. And that is just amazing. I mean, I know it was 1903, but something like that, if it happened now I just, I can’t imagine what it would’ve been like as far as the court cases and the lawsuits and things just completely different than how it was in 1903, that’s for sure.
Erik: One, one of the difficult things that family members had to endure was to go through the process of identifying their loved ones bodies, and this was made especially difficult because the bodies were taken to multiple locations.
Troy: Right. Yeah. There was no one place. I mean, obviously the, the coroner’s office couldn’t handle 600 bodies or, or nearly 600. I mean, some of the people died later, but still we’re talking about 575 bodies, I believe. And so they were taking them to taverns saloons department stores. Any place where there was storage, they were laying out bodies for people to come and identify. So, you know, your family was there and you can’t find them.
And so you’re going from one temporary morgue to the next. People were following the wagons that were hauling away the bodies. And, and even then, you know, there weren’t enough coroners’ wagons, there weren’t enough police wagons or fire wagons. They were using everything they could possibly find to transport these bodies.
And then had to lay them out. On the floor in rows so that people could come by and look at them. And many of the bodies were burned beyond recognition. So people were trying to identify them with the objects and the items they were found with. Jewelry you know, watches, anything they might have, they could identify.
But imagine, you know, we’re talking about 575 people scattered in all these different places and now you are looking for a loved one. And you have to look at, well, you might have to look at all 575 bodies before and then still not be sure because you’re only trying to go by jewelry or something, or height or hair color, if there was any left because the bodies were burned so badly. You know, a lot of them weren’t that, that died from smoke inhalation, you know, were identified fairly quickly. But some of it went on for days and days and days trying to identify everyone that was there. It was almost impossible.
Erik: Yeah. In one memorable instance, a railroad attorney arrived to identify his, his daughter’s remains, and he had come with a friend and they went to separate locations to look for her, and the friend found her and actually put an identification tag on her body. And then he went to get her father. And then when they arrived back to the place, his friend had found her, her body was gone. It, it had just disappeared and it was never recovered.
Troy: Yeah, yeah. It just was gone. Yeah. That, that kind of thing was happening a lot too. And people just had to keep searching. I mean, they couldn’t find anything and or find any sign.
I mean, people were fainting, they were passing out, they were, all kinds of things were happening. They were trying to run down just children that were among the missing and they couldn’t find their parents, couldn’t find anybody they were related to, and they just kept happening to look and look. And the story, one of the stories that that really bothered me too was that the guy who was the manager at the cash register company that was right near the theater, and he took his wife and their two daughters to the show.
And he had opened the doors up for people who were injured because he was right on the corner next to the theater. And so he had like 50 people in there being treated but then couldn’t find his family. And so while he’s trying to help other people, he’s finding out that his wife and his two children died in the fire.
And that in itself is just the irony, the, the O’ Henry-ness of that story is another one of those stories that that really bothered me too. you know, there were, there were, I mean, everything about it bothers me, but that was, that was one I found to be kind of exceptional.
Erik: Oh, yeah. Yeah. There was a family on their way to the show you write. The mother suddenly had a premonition. She knew something bad was about to happen .
Troy: Yes. And ended up not going yeah, I fell, followed that story kind of closely cuz I ran across that story years later. So I sort of broke it up through the book talking about her having this, that the kids had come, they traveled to the city from their farm to go to the show and to do all, see all the exciting sites and they ended up shopping instead. And were at Marshall Fields when the fire broke out and they started rushing burn victims to Marshall Fields department store. And, you know, that was, that was when they realized that this premonition that their mother had had was actually coming true. And that, yeah, that’s, I, I, I obviously, I love that story a lot. I spend a lot of time on it in the book, but it, it’s just such an interesting story. I, I found enough personal accounts like that, that I could kind of split them up and, and kind of see the, the fire and see the theater through the eyes of the people who were visiting. When you’re, when you’re writing a book and you don’t want it to just be this straightforward story that kind of thing is fun to do, but it’s also, it’s also very sad, you know? So when you’re following along with these characters as you go, I think that kind of makes things worse when you finally get there. So, yeah. But yeah, that’s a, that is a good story too. I do love that one. Yeah.
Erik: There, there was a man who went to the theater with his daughter, and his daughter ended up dying, and in his overwhelming grief, he carried his daughter’s body home on a street car, and the conductor told him, no, you can’t take a dead body on a street car. And the man pulled a gun on him and said, I’m gonna do it anyway.
Troy: Right. Right., I’m going to anyway. Yeah. Yeah. I think that I, yeah. Again, I can’t even imagine the, the, the, the horror of the people who went into the theater. Not to mention the, the, the grief, you know, for people who, you know, I mean, you know, it’s it’s kind of the, something like this happens today.
You know, you think you, you’ve put your trust in this entity, you know, in this case it was this theater, this beautiful brand new, beautifully built advertised as Fireproof Theater, and you sit down in there to watch a show and you don’t think there’s any chance of anything going wrong. And I think that the, what that does to people’s, to, to their psyche, you know, when their, their faith in this institution has been completely shattered and you know, now you’ve, you’ve got dead loved ones and family members on your hands.
I think pulling a gun on someone so that you can take your daughter’s body home is the, the least affecting kind of thing that you might do. I’m surprised it, it wasn’t worse than that, really. It’s just a, it’s a, it’s just a horrible story. It just is, you know?
Erik: Yeah. Yeah. So I know you’ve, you’ve talked about this a bit already, but I do want to ask you about it again because, because there, there were multiple culprits. Plenty of people who shared responsibility in this tragedy from the mayor to the fire marshal. To the inspectors, to the managers of the show, to the owners of the building. But it all in the end became nothing more than a giant blame game.
Troy: Right, exactly. That is exactly what they were doing, you know? The, the building wasn’t even insured. That was the thing that, that was one big issue right there. So you can really look at the owners and all of the things that they had going on. These guys were definitely at fault in everything that happened. You know, Davis and Powers, the two men that owned the theater, you know, were the ones who kinda let things happen the way that they did.
But I mean, they weren’t the only ones by any means. Their entire organization, the theater organization that they worked for, the managers blamed them for cutting costs and not allowing them to spend enough. The chief of the fire department was blamed because you know, when the fireman informed him that the theater’s fire apparatus was incomplete, he should have shut everything down.
There were unions blamed. There were scab workers blamed. There were, you know, a big contractor worked for the city. They were blamed. The Fuller company was blamed for not finishing the, the skylights that were supposed to vent the top of the the building. Their local manager was blamed. You know, they, they, as I said, they indicted mayor Carter Harrison, you know, blamed him for it.
So there were so many people that were blamed and in the end, nobody was really punished. I mean, not, not punished in any way that was substantial. I mean, not in any way that mattered. You know, it might have hurt some people’s careers, but no one went to jail because of it. No one, I mean, the, the Iroquois theater officially declared bankruptcy, but big deal, you know, it was just a, it was just a kind of a shell company anyway for a bigger theater organization, Claw and Erlinger.
So nobody really was, took the blame. A lot of people were blamed, and of course a lot of people were guilty in all that happened. But in the end, Nothing, it never came to anything. All those lawsuits that were filed, no money was ever collected. It just it all just sort of went away. And, and you know what I, what I find, one of the things I find most sad about it is to this day, there’s still no marker or any kind of tribute to the people who died. I mean, there was one made, it was never installed. And you know, a marker that, that said, oh, you know, on this site, because I mean, the building, there’s still a building there. It’s not the same theater, but it’s built right on the site of that theater. And portions of the original were used in the building of the theater that’s there now. So they could have very easily have put that plaque up and never did. So it’s never been marked or, or, or commemorated in any way, which I find almost impossible to believe. But in a lot of ways Chicago likes to let that kind of stuff go. Bad things that happen, they just as soon ignore them. And so they, they wipe it out. And that’s exactly what they’ve done in this case. Yeah.
Erik: Yeah. The mayor Carter Harrison, Jr. He, he was the only one that that paid a personal price. His political career was…
Troy: Yeah, it didn’t, it didn’t help his career. I mean, he was coming from, I mean, it didn’t, it didn’t help his career. It hurt his career, but it didn’t really hurt him personally. He was coming from kind of a, you know, his father had been mayor before him, and so he was already sort of a part of a political dynasty in the city, so to speak. And so while, you know, it did hurt his chances for reelection, it, it didn’t really do much to him personally. I, I’m sure he probably felt terrible about it but you know, as far as that goes. But yeah, it didn’t really, he was, I guess you’re right. I mean, really, I guess he’s the only one that did, did pay any kind of price. I mean, other than people finding themselves outta jobs probably. And that was about it.
Erik: Right. So this isn’t a question that I normally ask my guests, but they aren’t usually experts in the paranormal. Would you tell us about some of the ghostly experiences people have had at the theater since the fire?
Troy: Yeah, sure. The the, the, the Iroquois was eventually – well first it became a music hall and then another theater, and then the new Oriental Theater was built on the site, which was there until 1981. And then it’s gone through several different names, but the building itself is still there. It’s the Nederlander Theater now, and, but, parts of the original theater are still there, which is why, you know, it’s one of those things that, you know why a lot of people believe there is still haunting going on, because there have been a lot of stories about the, the theater itself.
I, I don’t know if you, you probably don’t get a lot of this on the show, but you know, there’s an old adage about how every good theater has a ghost. And so there’s a lot of ’em here at this theater. You know, they, they talk about seeing figures you know, moving around even though no one’s supposed to be there.
Doors are locked, spotlights behave erratically. The curtains don’t work right sometimes. There have been employees who’ve reported a lot of apparitions in the theater. Usually people in costumes. But I mean, there were thousands of costumes used for Mr. Blue Beard, so it could be one of the ghosts. There was only one actor who died during the fire.
He was a bit part player named Bur Scott. And then there was an usher and a couple of female at attendants. Those were the only theatrical people that died. It was mostly just the civilians, but you know, there’s a lot of stories inside the theater. There have been stories about the Marshall Field Store, which is now Macy’s, which was used as a temporary morgue as a hospital during the fire.
They say that one of the floors where they kept burn victims was supposed to be haunted, or is supposed to be haunted as well. But the one place that has the most activity, which I think as I mentioned you when we started that got my attention about it, was Death Alley. Couch Place, which is is still there, it’s still behind the theater.
And you know, a lot of people died there trying to get out of the building and that’s why the reporters started calling it Death Alley. But. There have been stories for years about people who would walk through and would feel cold spots in the alley, or they would hear the sounds of voices or children talking and laughing.
Others say that they’ve been touched by something in the alley that they can’t see. They’ve had a number of women who claim that, that as they walk through the alleyway, they have sometimes felt what feels like a small child’s hand holding onto theirs. But I think probably the, the, the children’s voices and the laughing and the playing is the most eerie story that I hear from people about that alleyway.
And, and a lot of times those stories, which makes them more interesting to me, is that they’re told by people who don’t know the alley is supposed to be haunted, and then they hear the voices of the sounds and can’t figure out where they’re coming. We’ve, I’ve even had some accounts from people who were in the theater during shows and the stage doors or the side exit doors open out into that alley and people who have complained to ushers about all the noise in the alley of children out there playing and there’s no one out there at the time.
And these people don’t have any idea about the history or don’t know anything about the alley or about the ghost stories that are supposed to be told about it. So when stuff like that happens, people without knowledge of it and then tell a story that people have been experiencing there for years and they don’t know anything, never compared notes with anybody.
Those are my favorite kinds of ghost stories, you know? So, but yeah, there is, you know, all that, all that, that trauma, all that, that horrific history that took place there, you know, it’s just, it’s thought that it left, you know, an impression behind. And so that history just sort of repeats itself. As a, a haunting, it’s, it’s really not probably a ghost like you think of when you see something on tv. It’s probably more of a haunting, just sort of that energy, that history left behind. But it is, it is a great spot and it’s one of my favorite locations for that kind of thing in Chicago, and definitely one of my favorite stories of not only, you know, American disasters, but it’s also a great gloom and doom Christmas story too. So if you really wanna put a damper on somebody’s holiday spirits, tell ’em that story.
Erik: Okay. I’ll, I’ll make sure I I time this. So, so the episode comes out during the Christmas season.
Troy: Yeah. There you go.
Erik: So I wanna ask you about this. Why ghosts in theaters? I’m from the Twin Cities and two of the more prominent ghost stories in Minnesota- they take place in, in theaters. The, the Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis and the Fitzgerald Theater in St. Paul. Do you think it’s because theater people have dramatic personalities…
Troy: Yes. Yes. You know, you can, you could look at, you can take it, you could take it seriously and say, well, every range of the human emotion is enacted in the theater, from laughter to sadness, to fear, or anything. You know, maybe that leaves an impression behind.
You can also say that actors and people who work in the theater are so dedicated to their craft and to their theater, that if they have a chance to remain behind after death, they just might do so and continue on in their theater. Or you can look at it like I usually do and say that theater people are, are so dramatic and theatrical that everything that happens needs a, a story to go along with it.
And that’s usually a ghost story. And so I think that the, the theatrical nature of theater people… sometimes we’ll have them seeing ghosts everywhere, so to speak. So it just depends on how you look at it. But yeah, there are lots and lots of theater ghost stories. At one time I contemplated writing a book about just haunted theaters and then I was like, oh God, no. That’s too long of a book. It’s just too many. You gotta narrow that baby down. You cannot just say theaters in general. So that would never work.
Erik: Yeah. Again, to make your point in this story of the Iroquois theater fire, these young women were, were so dedicated to, to the show. They continued to dance on the stage even though the fire was above their heads.
Troy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s that is some dedication there. And I thought that when, you know, when I first ran across those accounts of, of those women just standing there while not knowing what was going to fall on their head and they saw it, it wasn’t, it wasn’t like they didn’t know it was on fire. I mean, they didn’t at first, but once they did, they stayed there and kept singing for a lot longer than most people probably would’ve. That’s for sure.
Erik: Amazing. Yeah. Well, well this has been so great. So Troy, tell us about your podcast, your website, your tour business.
Troy: Sure. Well American Hauntings, next year’s gonna be our 30th year of doing books and history events and haunted tours. And so American Hauntings dot net is our website. And it’s got just pretty much everything. That homepage takes you just about anywhere you want to go. We do a lot of different things. We do tours in, in several cities in, in Illinois. I do dinner and spirits tours around the St. Louis area.
Over on the Illinois side in Alton, which is one of the most haunted small towns in America. And so we do dinner events and bus tours and things there too. And, you know, we started the American Hauntings Podcast, I believe we’re just about to finish our sixth season. And that has been a lot of fun. It is not something that I plan to ever get into. But my co-host talked me into it, and now it’s so much fun that I can’t imagine not doing it. So yeah, it’s yeah, it keeps me busy. You know, it’s, it’s just, I mean, this is my day job and so it’s, it’s my nine to five. People are always like, well, how do you write so many books?
I’m like, well, I mean, I go to work and I do my job, you know, you know, but I love, I love what I do, and it is a lot of fun. And again, I can’t imagine doing anything differently than what I do. So you know, I write books on a lot of different things. Just whatever, you know, strikes my fancy at the moment.
I, I’ve got a new book out for the holiday season called One Bleak Mid-Winter Night, which also includes a shorter version of the Iroquois Theater story, but it’s all about murder and mayhem and tragedies during the holiday season. The entire book is dedicated to Christmas related tragedy and terrors, so this story is in there too as well as in One Afternoon at the Iroquois.
Erik: Well, well, gosh, thank you so much for spending some time with us today.
Troy: Sure, absolutely. Yeah. One of my favorite topics, nobody asks me very often, so when you asked, I was excited to do it. So more than happy to be here, so thank you.
Erik: Again, I have been speaking to Troy Taylor, author of One Afternoon at the Iroquois: America’s Deadliest Theater Fire. This has been another episode of the Most Notorious Podcast broadcasting to every dark and cob webbed corner of the world. I’m Erik Rivenes and have a safe tomorrow.
